Awakening and the end of suffering
JP wrote:
How does your version of awakening/stream entry relate to suffering? How much suffering is released upon awakening? How much craving/desire?
The Buddha apparently said that upon stream entry the amount of suffering that goes away is comparable to a large mountain. While the amount of suffering that remains is only a few pebbles. From what I've seen of LU, and other direct pointing methods their awakening does not come anywhere near (nor even here and the MTCB, this kind of dramatic reduction in suffering. Why do you think that is? Are the direct pointers really talking about the same thing when they say 'awakening' as the old buddhists?
Baba wrote:
Hello JP,
Yes. I often compare the delusional psychology of our's to a cart wheel where the center of it would be "me", the spokes whatever mental and emotional content and the outer rim the subconscious mind. If you take the center out and the wheel keeps turning, it cannot help but collapse under weight. That's how I've experienced it and heard my friends tell about it. So if I would have to choose between a mountain or pebbles, awakening as defined and experienced here removes a mountain of suffering, for sure, no doubt about it.
I am not a big fan of LU (Liberation Unleashed) even though on the other hand what they do is way better than nothing. I think they are a bit too hasty in their ways and views. There are strange views involved, like neo-advaita influences which can be very unhealthy and problematic in the long run. We have to remember that awakening is the first permanent stage of spiritual attainment but not by any means the final one. So, we need to put awakening into context. It is actually silly how many seem to think that, "Awakening is all there is and that's it, you're done". Not at all. One has to be very obsessed with being awakened if you don't figure it out pretty soon after awakening.
I am not an exponent of formal traditional buddhism. And I haven't received a permission to teach from any physical buddhist teacher, though I have from a few non-physical masters known from the buddhist tradition. So, I do not have orthodox buddhist authority and therefore I cannot say whether my stream entry would be qualified by the modern ajahn's or not. And of course the followers of orthodox theravada say that no, what I'm talking about is not according to buddha dharma. Maybe they say that or not, makes no difference to me or any of the people who awakened through Open heart. What matters is that the primary cause of delusion, confusion and suffering has been removed. It makes all the difference.
- Baba Kim Katami
19.1.2016
Open Heart, www.openheart.fi
Hello JP,
Yes. I often compare the delusional psychology of our's to a cart wheel where the center of it would be "me", the spokes whatever mental and emotional content and the outer rim the subconscious mind. If you take the center out and the wheel keeps turning, it cannot help but collapse under weight. That's how I've experienced it and heard my friends tell about it. So if I would have to choose between a mountain or pebbles, awakening as defined and experienced here removes a mountain of suffering, for sure, no doubt about it.
I am not a big fan of LU (Liberation Unleashed) even though on the other hand what they do is way better than nothing. I think they are a bit too hasty in their ways and views. There are strange views involved, like neo-advaita influences which can be very unhealthy and problematic in the long run. We have to remember that awakening is the first permanent stage of spiritual attainment but not by any means the final one. So, we need to put awakening into context. It is actually silly how many seem to think that, "Awakening is all there is and that's it, you're done". Not at all. One has to be very obsessed with being awakened if you don't figure it out pretty soon after awakening.
I am not an exponent of formal traditional buddhism. And I haven't received a permission to teach from any physical buddhist teacher, though I have from a few non-physical masters known from the buddhist tradition. So, I do not have orthodox buddhist authority and therefore I cannot say whether my stream entry would be qualified by the modern ajahn's or not. And of course the followers of orthodox theravada say that no, what I'm talking about is not according to buddha dharma. Maybe they say that or not, makes no difference to me or any of the people who awakened through Open heart. What matters is that the primary cause of delusion, confusion and suffering has been removed. It makes all the difference.
- Baba Kim Katami
19.1.2016
Open Heart, www.openheart.fi
